Weddings, entitlement and blogger hysteria
January 26th, 2010 | by TJ |Internet, say your car was really close to breaking down. I mean, it’s day by day, dire situation. Your brakes could go out and fling you into oncoming traffic at any moment. I offer you two options:
1. Run out and grab a new car really quickly right now OR
2. Wait 6 months and your family will generously gift you with a car.
Obviously, the answer is run out and grab a new car really quickly right now, because your car is a death trap, except don’t tell anyone and HIDE the car so your family will give you another car in six months. Right?
How about a similar situation: Your fiance is deploying (for the sake of argument, let’s say he was given three weeks notice even though that never actually happens) and it would be really convenient if you were married now, but you also want a big pretty wedding in Jamaica, with all of your family flying out to join you six months from now. I again offer you two options:
1. Run out and get married really quickly right now – I mean, even in 3 weeks (which never happens), you can get your close family and friends together for a nice ceremony, and send your new husband off on his deployment secure in the fact that his new wife is taken care of OR
2. Wait 6 months and have the dream wedding you wanted.
Again, the answer is obvious. You get married really quickly right now, except you hide the fact that you’re married so that in six months, your family and friends will shell out to fly to Jamaica so you can have the wedding of your dreams as well.
Clearly, in both situations, the answer is the same – lie to your friends and family to make sure that you get what you’re entitled to.
Now, let’s add a blogger spin on it. Say you’re a writer on a bridal blog, and you’ve just made a post coming clean about how yes, it’s true, you are already married, but you’ve decided to hide it from family and friends so that they aren’t aware that you’re already married when they come to the destination wedding you’re planning in Jamaica, with the dress, the vows, the whole nine. Some commenters on your public blog disagree with what you’re doing. I offer you two options:
1. Accept the fact that when you blog about something, not everyone will agree and may comment to that effect and move on OR
2. Delete any and all comments that you don’t like.
Again, why am I giving quizzes with such obvious answers? Clearly, you email anyone who commented explaining whylying is okay in your particular situation. You express shock that someone dared express a dissenting opinion in blog comments. When they still don’t agree with you, you THEN delete any and all comments that you don’t like, and head to another blog, where you post all of the emails, secure in the fact that your regular readers will tell you it’s totally okay to lie to your friends and family. After all – you are entitled to that special wedding day!
I’ve written about this elsewhere - the notion, common especially among young military brides – that just because you’re married doesn’t mean you can’t get married. That there’s nothing wrong with it. That solely due to the fact that you were born female, you’re entitled to your wedding day. You should also note that the linked article was written three weeks ago – so my annoyance with this phenomenon certainly isn’t a personal vendetta against one person with one entitled attitude.
My question, though - if these women didn’t think they were doing something wrong, why are they lying about it or hiding it? If there’s nothing wrong with a quickie wedding and then a “real” wedding later, why not just give people the heads up?
There is nothing wrong with getting married quickly before a deployment – Phil and I would do the same thing if faced with a sudden (which never happens, but again – 3 weeks, for the sake of argument) deployment. There’s nothing wrong with having a big “meet the family” party when he comes home. There’s nothing wrong with saying “Hey, friends and family, come on out to our vow renewal” when he gets home.
But lying - lying – to your friends and family, for no other reason that I can see other than to preserve your dream of the perfect wedding - I can’t get behind that, not even for a fellow military bride. You can plan a quick wedding (in that 3 week notice that never actually happens). You can get by on just a civil ceremony.
Another common argument is that the civil ceremony is just signing a paper – it’s not a real wedding. I think my parents, married nearly 30 years, would be distressed to know that they didn’t have a real wedding. Do you think the IRS will get mad when they find out my parents have been filing jointly, but only had a civil ceremony?
Now that I’ve explained where I’m coming from, let’s move on to the blogger hysteria.
(I’m not going to post all of the emails exchanged, because you can feel free to read them on the other blogger’s post.)
The Bridal Bloggette appears to be a relatively new blog, trying to fit itself in to the crowded wedding blog niche. Several different brides are going to blog about their wedding planning, offer do-it-yourself help and general serve as a resource and gathering place for other young women planning weddings, from what I can tell.
I read a post on this blog today explaining the exact situation above – the bride was already married, but wasn’t going to tell friends and family. I left a comment saying that lying certainly wasn’t cool, and asking why the writer would need to have a big wedding if they were already married – after all, is it about the marriage or the wedding?
The writer sent me an unsolicited email to… I don’t know? Tell me why it was ok for her to lie? Chastise me for disagreeing with something she wrote on a public blog? Regardless of her reasons, she shortly deleted my comment (and the comments of others) and took the whole thing to her personal blog. Why? Because if you take it to your personal blog, as the wounded party, you get responses like:
“How dare she disagree with you!” and
“She must be jealous!” and
“She must need a hobby, even though all she did was leave a comment on a blog like any normal person would and then you took time out of YOUR day to email her and then she responded! Even though you actually are the one who lost her mind, SHE obviously has too much time on her hands!” and
“OMG why does she even care? It’s not like you wrote about a wedding on a wedding blog and she’s actually getting married! Everyone knows that if you disagree with someone on the internet, you obviously give an unhealthy-sized shit about their life.” and
“Wow, she must be made of PURE EVIL to not totally be behind not only you lying to YOUR family, but to also create a wedding blog where you tacitly support others lying to THEIR families!”
The fact that she emailed me, on top of the fact that she’s advocating lying are, of course, totally ignored.
Look, any other military brides or brides in general who may stumble upon this post after reading the drama started by someone who can’t handle disagreement maturely – if you need to get married quickly, for whatever reason – DO IT. If you want to have a party afterwards, do that. If you want to have a vow renewal, do that. If you want to have a whole big wedding re-enactment with the dress and the church and everything else – that’s FINE. If you come from a country or a tradition that calls for a legal ceremony at one point and a church ceremony at another – ALSO FINE.
But don’t, please don’t, lie to your friends and family about it. No matter how many people tell you it’s ok, no matter how many people may kiss your butt about it on your own blog – lying is not ok. Ask yourselfwhy you’re lying. Is it because you don’t feel like you’ll get the attention and celebration you deserve if your family already knows? That’s probably true. If you’re grown up enough to get married, though, you’re grown up enough to accept that. You’re starting your lives together. Don’t start it on a lie.
This is what doesn’t seem to be getting through to so many people, both military and civilian, who do this for any number of reasons. It’s not the two ceremonies that’s wrong. It’s not throwing yourself a wedding when you’re already married that’s wrong (even if it is kind of tacky). The LYING is what is wrong. LYING. It’s not okay. No amount of “WHY DO U EVEN CARE??!!11!!” is going to make lying ok.
Also, as advice to bloggers in general – if you post about your life and then get upset at anyone who disagrees with you, sending hysterical emails about “WHY DO YOU CARE WHAT I DO SO MUCH!!!!” is kind of weird. You posted it on the Internet. People read that shit, you know (but don’t bother to comment – a couple of people told me that dissenting comments are, of course, being deleted).
By dimwell on Jan 26, 2010
“I hate cynicism. It’s my least favorite quality and it doesn’t lead anywhere. Nobody in life gets exactly what they thought they were going to get. But if you work really hard and you’re kind, amazing things will happen.”
- Conan O’Brien
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By Chibi Jeebs on Jan 26, 2010
O MAH GAW! U PLAY WoW!!1! U R MASSIVE LOOSER, OBVS!!1!one!
Fuck sakes. *eye roll*
Seriously, though. If she wanted GENUINE opinions on the “situation” (she created) with you, why not post it on the bloody wedding blog where it took place?
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Adlib Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 4:08 pm
Yeah, I kind of wanted to go off when that one commenter mentioned WoW. Way to judge when you’re all upset about someone else doing the judging. Heh.
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By Audrey on Jan 26, 2010
LOL, she’s like the Brett Favre of brides. Wait, does that metaphor work?
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By Ambrosine on Jan 26, 2010
I dunno, TJ. To me, the legal document doohicky part is a legal thing. The wedding itself is a social ceremony-you don’t have to do them at the same time for them to both be valid. Wanting both at seperate times isn’t feeling “entitled”, either.
As to the lying part…do you know how much I’ve casually omitted, especially to my future in-laws, just to avoid massive drama? They don’t even know what RELIGION I am, because it’s personal and I know they’d throw a shit fit. Am I lying? Or just avoiding crap I don’t deserve to begin with?
/shrugs
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TJ Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 3:56 pm
The lying is the problem. Omitting personal information is one thing. Not telling people you’re married when you’re actually married and then expecting them to come to your wedding to watch you get married is rude at best.
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By Haley on Jan 26, 2010
But TJ, this isn’t YOUR life. I hate to disagree with you on your own blog, but I’m going to do it anyway. Just because it isn’t the way you would do it, doesn’t mean that SHE can’t. I’ve read both sides. So please don’t think I’m just pulling this informatoin out of my nose. But I really think you both should just let it go and don’t fall into the stupid cyber-war attitude.
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TJ Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 3:55 pm
But my blog is my life, and people comment on it every day. The fact is, I commented on a blog – not even her PERSONAL blog, but a wedding blog. A wedding blog where she was advocating lying to have a dream wedding.
On top of that? All I did was comment – SHE emailed ME. Not to get into a whole “she started it” thing, but the accusations of “why do you care about someone else’s life” don’t hold up in 1, public blogs and 2, when someone else emails ME and decides they don’t like the response.
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Awlbiste Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 4:07 pm
Lying is wrong. That’s really all it comes down to. Lying is wrong.
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Haley Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 5:00 pm
I understand. All of this. I’m not condoning what she did. I’m merely saying that wasting any sleep over it is just playing into the drama. Obviously she started it. I’m not disputing it. I’m just saying, not being the bigger person is wrong too. And I’m not sure if I’m the person people are talking about referencing WoW. But I wasn’t. I was talking about these huge arguments between bloggers that get other people involved and dear lord why can’t we all just get along?! *hides in non-confrontational corner*
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Haley Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 5:03 pm
Oh, I see now. I take back my WoW thing. On account of it wasn’t me and that was a little like you’re so vain.
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By Tchann on Jan 26, 2010
I think my comment was on her blog for all of five minutes, maybe, before I refreshed and saw it was gone. I thought it was pretty funny how she was more than happy to bring the argument into a public forum, then righteously refuse to defend it.
Also, I am spending too much time fretting about this when I should be working on getting SVU done, OMG. x.x
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By Awlbiste on Jan 26, 2010
My mom and stepdad will be really pissed off to discover that their wedding is no longer valid. (Their JoP wedding in a blizzard performed by a judge with an eyepatch, no less).
I also will I guess be having a non-valid wedding when I do get married one day because I’m not interested in the ceremony and the blahblah. I totally get that many many people are but me? Eh.
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By Jimmy on Jan 26, 2010
A) no, you buy a shitbox car to tide you over till your family can help you buy the car that will last you.
b) if you think getting married is the lifetime equivalent of getting a car, somehow, I don’t see yours workin’ out for you.
c) “I think my parents, married nearly 30 years, would be distressed to know that they didn’t have a real wedding.”
If that is all your parents wanted, then that is their real wedding. If signing a piece of paper is not what your wedding was supposed to mean, if it was supposed to be a declaration of love in front of your family and friends and/or with religious ties, then no, a piece of paper doesn’t mean anything when it comes to sentimental reasons for the whole thing.
d)If the piece of paper doesn’t hold the sentimental value, then why bother telling cousins and cousins’ cousins about it? I don’t tell my aunts and uncles when I update my will. What’s the difference? Should they not come to my funeral because they know I have a will?
e) If you’re jealous, that’s ok. Quit lying to everybody about it. Come out in the open like you seem so proactively encourage others to do.
f) “if you post about your life and then get upset at anyone who disagrees with you, sending hysterical emails about “WHY DO YOU CARE WHAT I DO SO MUCH!!!!” is kind of weird. ”
Dude, obsession is never ok. Never. Neither is trying to tear down a person. Neither are blatant personal attacks towards somebody you don’t know. Calling somebody a liar on the internet? That’s skeazy. What is it to you anyway? Yes, it’s posted on the internet, but so is animal porn. Do you search that out to slam the people running those sites? Or is this a personal vendetta? Maybe she’s getting something you were deprived of and you don’t think she deserves it? Well, guess what? That’s your problem and not hers.
Before setting out to attack somebody, you might want to figure out what your motives are and what the outcome you desire. Do you expect her to not have a wedding just because some random psycho opposed it? Do you expect her to… what exactly to you expect her to do? You already completely discredited yourself and any opinions you have by your demeanor. So…? What’s your point?
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TJ Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 4:05 pm
Just for the record – I didn’t attack anyone, I commented on the Bridal Bloggette. Of course, you can’t see that, because she deleted it. She emailed me to justify her lying and ended it with calling me harsh and judgmental. Whether or not those things are true doesn’t matter – it was her unsolicited email that started slinging insults. Just so you’re clear.
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Tchann Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 4:08 pm
You missed the part where the OP took the discussion (which she disagreed with) private, had an argument, and then pulled it public again to mock TJ, right? And then deleted all comments that disagreed with her?
I mean, yes, it’s her right, as it’s the internet and such. But since you’re such in a tizzy about it, I just wanted to make sure you were following the course of events.
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Jimmy Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 4:15 pm
No, see, I didn’t see that part because it’s irrelevant. All that matters is your current actions. This post sits independently on the internet with nothing to back it up. It’s just unwarranted, retaliatory mudslinging. Kind of like when a kid steals a toy and the kid reacts by throwing sand in the kid’s eye. Some reactions have a longer lasting effect. Soon, people will forget the other girl is getting married, but they won’t forget the way you treated her.
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Tchann Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 4:21 pm
You missed the part where I’m not TJ, huh?
I guess that’s irrelevant too. ^.^
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Jimmy Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 4:25 pm
Really, Tchann? You seem to answer for her.
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sara Reply:
January 27th, 2010 at 8:20 am
You know, Jimmy, I agree that this whole post TJ wrote is, in effect, retaliatory mudslinging.
However, the course of events, as I understand it (from TJ’s account and other posters here that saw it play out) is that TJ saw this post on the bloggette whatever and commented that she disagreed with the poster (just as you’ve done here). When the poster then deleted her comments, took the argument private, then proceeded to “call out” TJ in another forum without giving all the facts, yeah… TJ got pissed, I’d wager. I would too. It just so happens that TJ has a forum herself, where she can defend herself/call out the other person on her lies. Why not do that then?
I mean, if you disagree with something you read on the internet, you can always leave a comment right? Oh wait…
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Awlbiste Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 4:38 pm
What is TJ being deprived of? Dude, she’s HAVING a wedding with the family and the dress and the stuff. Jealousy is a poor argument.
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By Rachel M. on Jan 26, 2010
My question is still, why do you care so much? She isn’t lying to you/your family/your friends. If her family gets pissed about it later, what is it to you?
I just don’t understand what the point is to go to someone’s post and criticize their decisions. Especially when their life decisions don’t have an impact on ANYONE in your life. It just appears that you are going out of your way to be negative to a stranger.
But maybe that’s what you want? You want to be the big bad marriage police of the internet. Let me guess, you aren’t going to agree with my life/wedding decisions since I’m not doing it the way YOU think I should.
I eagerly await your opinion on how I should run MY life next…..
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TJ Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 3:59 pm
Rachel,
Your argument totally holds up except for two points:
One, I replied to her post on a bridal blog expressing my opinion – just like you’re doing now.
Two, she emailed me. I didn’t go out of my way, she did.
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Jenn Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 4:05 pm
And writing this blog post isn’t going out of your way…?
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TJ Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 4:07 pm
Not any more out of my way than she went to email me in the first place.
Also, this blog post and this situation go to further a point and opinion I’ve held for longer than I’ve been aware of her existence, as you can see in the linked post above.
So really, when you look at it that way, I’m just using HER lies to further MY evil agendas.
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Rachel M. Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 4:06 pm
But your comment was an attack right off the bat. She emailed you to respond to your criticism, if you hadn’t been negative she wouldn’t have emailed you. If you are going to go around and give negative opinions then you should expect some emails in response.
Live a negative life, get negativity back
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Tchann Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 4:10 pm
Wait…are you advocating never disagreeing with anybody, in order to have a positive life? This rationale is confusing me.
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Rachel M. Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 4:12 pm
Nope just saying that she shouldn’t surprised that she didn’t get a million hugs for telling a stranger that they are living their life wrong.
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Adlib Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 4:13 pm
So nobody is allowed to disagree with anybody else? That’s really all TJ did. The OP took it personally and went to her personal blog to get vindication.
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Rachel M. Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 4:19 pm
Okay, but why go out of your way to disagree with a stranger? Where is the win? What’s the point? Sure you can disagree with someone, but to just go out of your way to do it with a stranger just makes you seem bitchy? If that was her goal, fine, but she seems to be offended about people thinking she’s bitchy.
If you paint yourself as a negative person, why get upset when people agree?
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TJ Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 4:22 pm
Well, you disagree and you’re commenting on my blog, right? I disagreed with what she posted on the Bridal Bloggette, so I commented. She is the one who escalated it after that – SHE emailed me. SHE took it to Twitter. SHE made a blog post about it. Why go out of her way for that? If she’s cool with what she’s doing, why does she care if I disagreed? All her actions indicate that she certainly did care about my opinion.
Tchann Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 4:24 pm
Rachel, there’s a difference between being upset when someone agrees, and being upset when someone takes a conversation in a private forum and takes it public for the point of public humiliation and mockery.
Whether or not TJ was wrong, the fact remains that the OP conducted a serious breech of etiquette.
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Rachel M. Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 4:25 pm
Yep, I am disagreeing & commenting. And you don’t like it either do you?
I await your post bitching about me now since that’s the way you deal with people that disagree with you.
Remember when YOU dedicate a post to someone it’s the RIGHT thing to do, but when someone dedicates one about you, it’s WRONG WRONG WRONG!
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Rachel M. Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 4:28 pm
But the thing is Tchann, is that TJ seems to be more mad about a stranger lying to other strangers than about her emails being made public. If she wrote a post about the breach of etiquette I would have had to relented to your point, but she is writing about how the OP is still making the wrong decisions in HER life.
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Tchann Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 4:31 pm
Since an argument that should not have been made public has suddenly turned an entire horde of angry internet commentators upon her, I think she felt the need to defend herself. I can’t fault her for that, really.
She knew that doing so would open her up for more criticism, and I think it says far more for her that she’s allowing that criticism on her blog, instead of deleting dissenting comments (like the OP is doing).
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Adlib Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 4:35 pm
She never said the posting on the blog was wrong (if upsetting); the main point is that lying was wrong. It’s pretty petty of the Original Poster to do that in the first place, but at least TJ leaves all the disagreeing comments up and doesn’t delete them.
So what you’re saying (“and you don’t like it either, do you?”) is that disagreeing is somehow wrong or going to hurt a person? As has been said by TJ before, don’t put it on the internet if you don’t want comments (good or bad).
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Rachel M. Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 4:36 pm
So it’s okay for her to start the negativity because she allows people to comment about her? Couldn’t this all have been avoided if she didn’t insist on policing strangers’ life decisions?
How is her first negativity okay? Am I the bad guy because I disagree with her?
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Rachel M. Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 4:43 pm
Do you know the OP’s story? Did you go read her archives to see the story develop? Do you realize that they are paying for the entire wedding and not her parents? Or that her sister got married in the same civil ceremony and has NO problems with a civil marriage, she just wants to have a party to celebrate her marriage?
Maybe some of the facts you guys are given are wrong and all someone had to do was actually read her blog instead of making assumption about her decisions and her “lying”
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Skraps Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 4:49 pm
Umm I think the point that is missed here Rachel, TJ is not comenting on the OP’s lifestyle, decisions etc. TJ is advocating not lying about it. A stance that TJ has taken for as long as I can remember reading about in her blog.
Dude…don’t lie to the Internet. Even more so don’t lie to your friends and family.
And if you are going to have a discussion on a public forum do not delete comments you disagree with. Notice all the comments TJ doesn’t agree with that are still here?
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Rachel M. Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 4:54 pm
You want to stop lying on the internet? Well I suggest going into a lot of chat rooms and telling all those 50 yr old men to stop pretending they are 16 year old girls.
In all seriousness though, she actually didn’t lie to her family and friends. Many of them know already. So if you want to paint the OP as a liar then you should get a smaller brush.
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avasmommy Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 5:07 pm
“I chose not to make this public knowledge on my personal blog because our extended families don’t know.”
Direct quote from the OP’s post.
That seems to indicate a hiding of the truth. In other words, lying.
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Rachel M. Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 5:12 pm
Okay, I will admit. You have me there. I will say that in all actually she has told many friends and family members. Now does that change your view or do you stick with the negativity?
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avasmommy Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 5:32 pm
Rachel, why not just tell them all? Seriously? If it’s not a big deal, just be open about it. And by putting this whole thing on her blog today, it seems her friends and family who didn’t know are going to find out in a rather abrupt fashion.
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Craig Reply:
January 28th, 2010 at 11:05 am
Somehow the point that is being missed in all of this is that the only thing that TJ was saying is that you shouldn’t lie to your family & friends. I personally hate being lied to and don’t understand why you would lie to your family in an honest situation that is reasonable and they should be understanding of. Had I read that blog, I would’ve posted a comment saying the same thing and most likely would’ve also been deleted.
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Rachel M. Reply:
January 28th, 2010 at 11:28 am
Actually the point that is being missed is that she isn’t lying to her family and friends that are coming to the wedding. She also didn’t lie to those that aren’t going. They decide to not tell certain members because of their traditional views. Think of it like a couple being married by a JoP and getting married in a church later. That couple may not tell their Grandma because she would be upset that they didn’t do it in a church first. The OP has similar situations.
Did she say so in the original post? No, but I don’t think she felt she had to since she never expected a stranger to accuse her of lying (and soon have people criticizing her about having her parents pay for the wedding (which they aren’t) and about having people pay to go see their “lie” marriage (which the couple is actually paying for their guest to go out to the wedding))
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By Kendall on Jan 26, 2010
My main issue that I have been struggling to understand since I first found out about this bit of e-drama is why is it a sense of entitlement to have a wedding ceremony after a civil one? I know my parents waited about 8 years to have a “wedding” with all the bells & whistles that entails.
As for lying, unless I misread something somewhere, didn’t she say that they had told their immediate families and would tell others later?
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By avasmommy on Jan 26, 2010
I guess the lying part is what I don’t get. I could care less if she does a civil ceremony and then the big wedding. But why lie about it?
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By Lori on Jan 26, 2010
For what it’s worth, I think you did a wonderful job of explaining your side of the story, and I agree with you.
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By barbetti on Jan 26, 2010
I think if you knew more about the situation, you wouldn’t be so hung-up on the “lying” aspect you rage against.
Anyone attending her wedding in Jamaica will already know she’s had a civil ceremony. And she moved the conversation to her personal blog, because it was a PERSONAL conversation, not meant to be hashed out on the wedding blog.
End of story.
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TJ Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 5:38 pm
I will always be hung up on the lying aspect. As you can see in the post I linked, my distaste for the “quick ceremony, hide it, “real” ceremony later” thing didn’t start with this particular blogger. I’ve written about it in the past. Honestly, it wasn’t even personal – it was a dissenting blog comment – until she took it to email and then, her blog.
I admit that I have used her to make a point, but only because she took it personal. And I’m sorry, I get a lot of my blog ideas from reading other’s blog posts – especially if they’re kind enough to write about me first. That’s how the Internet works.
I again have to suggest that if a disagreeing comment – which is all I left on Bridal Bloggette – is too much for her to handle, she’s not really being realistic.
I get disagreement on my blog all the time. I don’t then take it to personal email. That’s where SHE took it to a personal level, not me. Since she was so eager to continue it by dragging it to her blog, why can’t I?
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barbetti Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 6:26 pm
I take things to a personal email to avoid an unnecessarily huge issue, such as this. In fact, I reply to most of my readers’ comments through email because let’s face it, not too many readers return to a blog post they commented on to see replies.
I can understand why you would be upset over blatant LYING, as would I. I was simply stating that she was NOT lying. I consider myself pretty close to Rachel and have heard her say, before this whole mess became this drama, that everyone attending her Jamaican wedding will know, beforehand, that they’ve already been married.
And she isn’t lying: she’s just not telling everyone she knows in this great wide world they’re married. I just recently told my grandfather I got married, not because I was hiding it from him, but because my wedding CEREMONY itself was small and tidy and again, a piece of paper – no big deal.
Situations like this one are why people stick to email.
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TJ Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 6:31 pm
barbetti – I’ll allow that there may possibly be more information on her personal blog (though I doubt it would change my mind, which doesn’t affect her) – but I wouldn’t know about that – I replied to a post of hers on a completely DIFFERENT blog where all she said was that she wasn’t telling family because she didn’t want to “ruin” her “real” wedding. I didn’t read any back story in her personal blog because – not to be harsh – I wasn’t there to read her personal blog, I was reading a wedding blog. So while I get that you might have more information than I did before my initial comment, I wasn’t even on her personal blog at all until she posted about me.
Secondly – I DID stick to email. I didn’t tweet about it, I didn’t post all of our emails. She did those things.
So I get that you’re mad at me and that you’re defending her, but all this started because I disagreed with her about something she explicitly said on a blog that wasn’t her personal blog. She took it to email, she took it public.
After she trashed me and called me bitter, etc on HER blog – aren’t I within my rights to post on mine?
Also, I refrained from specifically attacking her – I attacked her actions. She was not so kind to me.
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barbetti Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 6:42 pm
I’m not saying that you were wrong in posting this to your blog. I’ve been known to post similar passive aggressive blog posts, expressing my feelings towards emails, comments and etc that I’ve received and similarly disagreed with. You had every right.
I was merely explaining why Rachel initially chose to start from email. And I can see why, after the first email reply, she chose to move it to a public platform on her blog.
I can only speak of what Rachel posted from your emails. Her initial reply to you seemed completely respectful. I think she was ticked (or at least I was) when your reply included something to the effect of:
“…you’re reflecting poorly on me, and other Air Force wives, as well.”
If someone said that to me in an email, without provocation, I would be upset. I am very proud of my Army husband, as I know Rachel is of her Airman, so you can bet something like that would touch a nerve.
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By Lady Jess on Jan 26, 2010
I know so many wives that did the quick wedding before a short notice deployment or even before basic training to be official, then have the big ceremony later. But out of them…I don’t know a single one that lied. How friggin stupid! And then to freak out like a 2 year old that just had their candy stolen? Good on you for calling her out.
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By lenniejane on Jan 26, 2010
So the moral of your story is to keep up on car maintenance? I dunno, Teej, you lost me.
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By Coranada on Jan 26, 2010
Oh, gosh. Best comment on her post: “she plays Word of Warcraft … so that pretty much explains it all.”
Ohhhhhh… THAT’s my problem. I play Warcraft so I’m a hateful so and so.
Glad that’s solved.
I’m now picturing the Jane Curtain SNL skit featuring the soap that washed away that pesky *thinking* stuff. Any idea where I could get that?
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By MinD on Jan 26, 2010
There’s a rather big difference between “lying,” as you put it, and simply not making the vast announcement that you are married. Likely in her eyes, she isn’t married except she has a piece of paper that simply gives her a few more rights into the knowledge of his deployment.
How many people feel they aren’t married until they have a church ceremony? Many people in this society feel as though it’s not a “real” wedding without vows before God in a religious setting. So some of those individuals might have a civil ceremony and then actually recognize themselves as a married couple once it is done so in God’s eyes. Those people may not acknowledge that first wedding, waiting for the church service to truly be man and wife. Would you dare say they are lying? I bet not.
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By Jen_Ann_W on Jan 26, 2010
I think worst part is that she’s taking advantage of her family – not telling them she’s already married so that they’ll still shell out for a big wedding. Maybe they would make her pay for it herself if they knew? I think it’s wrong, absolutely. What I’m wondering is whether her friends/family find out about it now because she decided to write about it in a public blog.
As for me, we totally did the hurry-up-before-deployment wedding, which was a combination of awesome and somewhat disappointing due to people not being able to travel across the country on short-ish notice. But then we did two receptions after the deployment, one in each hometown, and it was great. But nowhere in there did we try to pull one over because we wanted to fleece somebody.
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Rachel M. Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 4:45 pm
Just to let you know (totally in a non-bitchy tone) the couple is paying for everything, no family members. If you want to be mad that’s fine, just want to make sure you’re mad for the right reasons.
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Jen_Ann_W Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 5:31 pm
Okay, but if she’s having the wedding in Jamaica, she’s still expecting her family and friends to shell out for the trip without knowing that they’re already married, correct? I don’t agree with that.
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barbetti Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 5:36 pm
Go back up and reread my comment. If you read the original blog, you’d see that she DID tell her family about it. THEY KNOW.
And everyone attending her Jamaica wedding already knows.
And to top it off, she’s spending HER money, flying family out.
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Jen_Ann_W Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 5:49 pm
OKAY YOU WIN. She’s still lying about it to her extended family and I see no reason to do that. And NO I’m not claiming to be a saint, but seriously, when does anyone condone lying about something like being married? And if it’s a private matter – like a homicidal uncle or something – then why post about it on a public wedding blog and get all huffy when someone questions it? Whatever Russ, whatever.
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By Lady Jess on Jan 26, 2010
Yeah I’m back…
You know what REALLY bugs me about this? If they are married, why isn’t that enough? Why focus so much on the event,and start a marriage of with a big fat lie to both sides of their family, not to mention their friends. These are the people that you count on for support in hard times, but for the sake of a fancy wedding and a bunch of gifts they missed at the civil wedding…they’re willing to lie to them. You never said they were really military.
But on the off chance they are…if they want to risk LOSING that kind of support when starting a marriage within a lifestyle that can put tremendous strain on even the BEST marriages, that’s going to hurt when those hard times come. Big Time.
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By Awlbiste on Jan 26, 2010
Why is it so hard for people to grasp the very simple concept that lying is wrong. Lying hurts feelings, and lying to your family is just a really terrible thing to do, to yourself and to them.
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Lady Jess Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 5:31 pm
Agreed! especially being a military marriage. Your family is your support network during a deployment. These are NOT the people one should risk hurting right before the husband deploys.
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By Cait on Jan 26, 2010
What I don’t understand is how you can automatically assume that she’s having the wedding later on to “pull one over” on her family. If you bothered to understand the situation, you would know that the people who would be in attendance ALREADY KNOW. But, you know, you’re too busy jumping to conclusions and making negative comments about someone you don’t even know.
As for the lying thing, you sure make yourselves sound like saints in that you’re implying that you’d NEVER lie, because oh goodness, LYING is a TERRIBLE thing. Are you going to hunt down every person on the internet who’s lying about something, and scold them about it?
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By Kt on Jan 26, 2010
I don’t agree with the way either one of you have handled the situation. Yes, she is posting the information on a public blog. But that doesn’t mean people can’t have a little compassion or understanding. Do I agree with everything people do? Absolutely not. Do I agree that her withholding the information from her family? No – it wouldn’t be right for me. But it’s a personal situation and unless I know the whole situation, it isn’t my place to judge.
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By terra on Jan 26, 2010
I can’t speak for all the services, but I can tell you that thousands of Soldiers in the United States Army remain ready to deploy at a moment’s notice, even right this very second. You say, repeatedly, that getting deployed with three weeks notice NEVER happens, but that’s so blatantly incorrect that I just had to say something.
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TJ Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 5:17 pm
As far as deploying to Iraq, for those in the Air Force, there is pretty much always significant notice. Up to a year, even. I’m sure her husband was one of the few who only got 15 minutes of notice, though.
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barbetti Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 5:39 pm
My husband is in the Army and received initially, a 30 days notice before his last deployment. And then it was changed to 24 hours. It happens.
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terra Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 6:21 pm
TJ, I’m not sure why you think I’m implying that it was 15 minutes for her husband. I merely pointed out a point of misinformation in your post.
The truth is, deployments frequently happen with very little notice. That’s just the way it works sometimes. On my last deployment (that’s right, I’m a Soldier AND a military spouse), I got about 6 weeks notice before I was shipped out for 18 months.
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TJ Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 6:24 pm
Of course that’s the way it works – sometimes.
But EXTREME chances are – in the AIR FORCE, not the army (that’s right, an airman is sitting right next to me) – at this point in time, no one is being sent to Iraq by surprise.
COULD it happen? Of course it could. I could win the lottery, too.
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terra Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 6:29 pm
I get it now! You get to act like the authority on being a military spouse but really have no fucking clue what’s going on in the other services! It all just makes so much sense now! You think you have the right to tell someone how to live their life, just because you’ve got some military “know-how” because you’re in a relationship with a service member.
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TJ Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 6:32 pm
But – her husband is in the Air Force. She told me that in email. So… what’s your point? My experience is valid here.
barbetti Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 6:49 pm
Her husband is also in the Air National Guard. It IS different. My husband is in the Army National Guard, perhaps that changes things? It’s not the same as Active or Reserves.
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Rebekah Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 6:38 pm
Er, Air Force, not Army. My mistake.
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Lady Jess Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 5:29 pm
There are very few Army posts that deploy on a moments notice. Ft Stewart, Ft Lewis, and a couple others are considered qualified for “Rapid Deployment”. They CAN deploy on only 96 hours notice. Outside of those types of posts the only ones that go on a moments notice are generally special forces troops. My own husband has deployed twice now, both times with in excess of a years notice. So to say it never happens isn’t exactly blatantly incorrect.
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terra Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 6:22 pm
Lady Jess – Consider yourself lucky that you got that much notice for the deployments!
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Lady Jess Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 7:01 pm
You yourself should know there is no “lucky” in deployment. For THREE years before our first it loomed over us like a black cloud, all the briefings, all the “preparation” all the waiting for that shoe to drop. Do you realize that is just as hard on a person, and a couple as 30 days notice or less? Every bit of time you get together is appreciated yes, but that cloud is there and it weighs on you.
And now? I have watched 21 wives and families from our COMPANY alone bury their loved ones from July 2009 to November 2009.
I go weeks without hearing from him, and only knowing he’s OK because noone rang my doorbell that day.
Tell me again how “lucky” I should consider myself.
You sit here and question TJ’s knowledge, when she’s comparing apples to apples, same branch, with an Airman sitting right there. So maybe I better clarify mine. Eight years married to a US Army Soldier. 11B to be exact.
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By Diane on Jan 26, 2010
I commented to this effect on Twitter, but it’s the SHE MUST BE JEALOUS comments that drive me up a freaking wall. Why is that what women ALWAYS fall back on in arguments? Disagree with someone? JEALOUS. Don’t like someone’s hair? JEALOUS.
I would be absolutely LIVID if shelled out hundreds (potentially thousands) of dollars to go to a close family member’s destination wedding and then found out they were ALREADY MARRIED.
Ah, entitlement.
(Also, WoW players don’t have feelings! Let’s throw rocks at them!)
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barbetti Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 6:33 pm
If you read some of the comments, you would see what several people who actually know the blogger in question have said: EVERYONE ATTENDING THE JAMAICAN WEDDING KNOWS THEY’RE MARRIED. Meaning, everyone shelling out “hundreds (potentially thousands) of dollars” already knows.
Never mind the fact that she is paying for some of those family members way there.
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Diane Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 6:50 pm
Well, good for you! You have all sorts of information I was not privy to, as I have never heard of her before today! Silly me, reacting to the information as presented in her original post, written by her, that stated she and her husband were keeping it a secret.
If her family knows, I have no beef with the situation. Though I’m curious as to why she lied about it in her original post.
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barbetti Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 6:57 pm
I will copy and paste for you then, direct from the Bridal Bloggette Blog:
“We didn’t tell our parents until a few days later, they were thrilled and surprisingly not upset. Our extended family still doesn’t know.”
But her extended family isn’t attending the Jamaican wedding. As of her writing that post, they didn’t know yet. That doesn’t mean she is lying.
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Kiki Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 6:45 pm
I don’t really understand the difference between spending the money no matter where the piece of paper was signed (frankly, destination weddings drive me NUTS). I thought you went to a ‘wedding’ to show those being ‘married’ your love and support. If it’s such a big deal to be present only for the actual marriage, why wouldn’t you be equally as pissed off that you weren’t invited to watch them sign the paper at the courthouse? Would you be so pissed if they asked you to fly to Jamaica in 10 years as they renewed their vows? Frankly I don’t see the difference between any of these scenarios. If it’s really about the money, you’re paying either way to celebrate with your loved ones. Personally, if I were going to show my love and support for their marriage, I don’t give a crap when it happened, it’s more about the gesture and the celebration. As an example, my fiance’s dad was remarried last year. He actually said we were explicitly NOT invited to the wedding, yet we were expected to fly across the country for the party a few weeks later. So we did that because we love them and we were there to celebrate their marriage. Honestly never thought about any of this (OMFG IT’S NOT **REALLY** THE WEDDING!!!) until this whole blog thing blew up. Yes, we already knew about it but I just don’t see the difference. I see a marriage as more of an open-ended ‘event’, not an open and shut act of signing a piece of paper (although legally, I suppose that’s what it really is).
On a lighter note, big ups to my WoW ladies out there ;)
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TJ Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 6:48 pm
Kiki, I don’t disagree with a single thing you’re saying HOWEVER, in the example you provided, about your fiance’s dad, you were told the situation. In the vow renewal thing, you know the situation.
It is NOT the two ceremonies/celebrations/etc that I don’t agree with. It’s HIDING the information from certain people so your “real” wedding isn’t “ruined.” THAT is what I don’t condone, and have no problem saying “No way, that is not cool.”
I get that as a friend or family member, you might not care that you’re not witnessing the actual wedding. I don’t believe, however, it would go over as well if you’re led to believe you ARE witnessing the actual wedding and later find out you weren’t. It’s not that it’s not the legal wedding, it’s the deception I’m against.
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Kiki Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 7:10 pm
I guess my point was more of…I just don’t care, and am REALLY surprised about how many people on both sides of this care SO MUCH.
I don’t know why people do the things they do and divulge the information they do/don’t – I happen to live with my fiance and have for over 4 years – many of my friends don’t know because they would be HORRIFIED and judge me/disown me because of my life of sin. I don’t plan on telling them (maybe ever), but certainly not before our wedding because I don’t need people judging us at our special celebration, and frankly I think some of them flat out wouldn’t even attend because of our living situation. Maybe this makes me a liar, I don’t know. I feel like it is the right decision for me.
As a complete outsider who just happened to be sucked in via Twitter, yah, I think it’s pretty rude not to give the invitees a head’s up (and to post emails on a blog), but it also seems a little harsh to judge that decision as only black and white right and wrong. I’m not sure a day in my adult life has gone by that I haven’t withheld some kind of information from someone, and frankly, minus my living-in-sin I lead a pretty freakin’ squeaky clean life.
Anyway, this has all been pretty interesting to view – from a social standpoint – we all sure do care a lot about what other people are doing and saying! I’m sure you ladies will both be happy with the choices you make and I wish you both very happy marriages!
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Adlib Reply:
January 27th, 2010 at 8:59 am
Your comment on the jealous thing x1000. I really hate that too!
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By Suburban Sweetheart on Jan 26, 2010
GASP! She didn’t tell THE WHOLE INTERNETS that she was already married? GASP. She’s planning a wedding? WHAT A LYING BITCH! I bet she also knows where the WMDs are & how to cure AIDS & she JUST ISN’T TELLING US. Clearly this bitch has a huge, huge lying problem that is affecting EVERYONE, EVERywhere!
Or… wait. Maybe you just have a huge butting-in-to-give-your-opinions-in-the-meanest-way-possible problem. it’s one thing to think what you think, to defend it logically & to feel it passionately, but it’s another to out-&-out attack someone for one decision of theirs that has no bearing on you – or anyone else – whatsoever. Why bother ruining someone’s day just be mean?
Everyone who’s ever had a birthday party on a day that wasn’t their actual day of birth is “guilty” of this crime you hate so much, too. Calm down. You don’t make any sense.
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TJ Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 5:41 pm
Dear Sweetheart,
I understand you’re defending your pal here, but it isn’t really necessary. You’re also kind of being over the top about it.
I don’t care about her history, I care that she made a blog post saying she was hiding something from her family so as not to “ruin” her wedding. She is the one who took it to a personal level after that.
I’m not going to apologize, nor get on board with the whole lying thing. You’re free to defend her blatant admission of lying all you want, though. I don’t mind if people disagree with me on my blog.
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Suburban Sweetheart Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 5:42 pm
You’re right, caps lock are quite over the top. And man, you sure do sound nice in these cordial replies of yours. I just wodner why you couldn’t have used the same cordiality in your initial email. My bad – just don’t like jerks.
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TJ Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 5:47 pm
Well, I didn’t write the initial email. I left a blog comment – which was way more low key in disagreeing than a lot of these comments have be. She wrote the initial email, chastising me for disagreeing with her.
She hit on a long held pet peeve of mine – I’ve written about it in the past. I can’t think of a situation that justifies lying. She said very clearly in her post that they were NOT telling family so their “real” wedding wasn’t RUINED. To me, she’s said, in text form, on the Internet, that she’s lying.
I didn’t come to her personal blog and start attacking her, either. This was on a different blog – one that appears to be meant to help out brides. My comment stating that I felt that lying was unnecessary didn’t agree with her, but certainly wasn’t out of line on a post that seemed to be advocating lying.
She’s the one who took it to email from there. She’s the one who threw out insults because I didn’t agree. And she’s the one who then took it to her personal blog.
I get that you like her. Totally get it. I mean, my readers are defending me. And I get that I’m not going to convince you that she’s wrong for lying. I just think that you might be being a bit hypocritical with all of this, when you consider the sequence of events, who made it personal, who started the insults, and who blogged about a personal conversation.
I’m perfectly cordial and perfectly nice. I disagree with what she’s doing and I blogged about it. All the upset, all the hysteria, all the taking a personal conversation public – that originated with her.
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Khronos Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 5:43 pm
Reading comprehension FAIL.
1. TJ isn’t the one that did the “butting in”- the other blogger did, by emailing her to her personal email in response to a public comment on a blog.
2. Who said anything about not telling the internet? She didn’t tell HER FAMILY. Not sure how you can’t tell the difference. And until people start flying to Jamaica for a birthday party, your “counter-example” doesn’t really work so well either.
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By Margarita on Jan 26, 2010
As a wedding planner about a third of my couples are already technically married, they’ve signed a piece of paper but had to wait to have their dream wedding because of money, time, family members not all there, wanting it in a place that wouldn’t technically allow them to marry there, etc. So you sign a paper, THEN days, weeks, whenever later you have a ceremony and a reception and you have it all.
Most couples don’t exclaim to the world that they signed that piece of paper, they may tell their parents, but really it’s their own personal thing. It’s not an outright lie, it’s a personal matter. Maybe she doesn’t see herself as married since there was no real ceremony or reception, that has a lot to do with getting married as well – not for everyone obviously but for some it matters.
I knew a bride who got married for her ‘parents’ sake when she got pregnant, just signed the papers, no big deal, she never changed her name or anything. HIS family was somewhat religious so after a year of her wearing an ‘engagement’ ring they had a big traditional ceremony and reception and it felt to her that although she was already technically married, that this was the icing on the cake, this really was the tie that bound them – they exchanged wedding rings, vows, and it was a truly spiritual ceremony rather than just a signing of the paper.
And I know that you’re also right, if signing a paper is enough for you, congrats. It’s enough for a lot of people, but not everyone sees it this way.
My boyfriend & I want to get married in Europe, in a country that doesn’t allow non-citizens to legally get married on their soil, so one of these days when we’re drunk enough we’ll go into city hall, sign a piece of paper, kiss and make love. Then a year later we might finally do the whole shind-dig – take pictures, where gorgeous dresses and amazing shoes and involve our whole family into it.
But you have to see both sides of the coin or else you look blind.
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By wishcake on Jan 26, 2010
I understand your stance on lying, but the whole preference of having an actual wedding celebration is her decision. As is yours to not have one if put in the same situation. You are saying that your true issue with this is the lying – but you spun this post off in so many hurtful directions. Especially because she has already told family & close friends about the fact that they are technically married right now. The whole vehicle analogy you wrote in the beginning of your post isn’t even accurate to her situation because of that fact.
I assume that you are open to other opinions on your post, so I just thought I’d share mine! I simply think it’s unfortunate that you feel the need to project so much negativity and anger into a situation that isn’t even yours to bother with.
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TJ Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 5:52 pm
I get where you’re coming from. Totally. But you should understand that this whole situation didn’t start with me sending her an angry email out of nowhere. I left a low-key but yes, disagreeing, comment on a public blog – just like you are now.
I didn’t take it to email, I didn’t post all those emails on my personal blog. No one’s personal blog was even involved until she took it there.
Your opinion is welcome – you’d assume as much on a public blog. My opinion, though, on the Bridal Bloggettes – which wasn’t insulting or rude or mean or personal – is what caused HER to take it to a personal level.
I’m not angry at her, and I don’t care what she does. The lying thing is a pet peeve with me, I’ve written about it elsewhere, and once she blew the situation up, I wrote about it here as well.
If, as you said, she was just “open to other opinions” on her initial post, she could have just left it.
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erin Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 6:35 pm
TJ-
i’m not going to write a whole long winded comment about my main opinions about this wedding matter. although, to be up front, i will absolutely let you know that i side with rachel. i have lived the military lifestyle, and completely understand the makings of deployments.i also don’t think she is “lying” to her family, because the ones she is close to, and who will be attending their wedding, already know that they’ve been legally married.and she was up front about this entire situation on the bridal bloggette. who she tells is her own business.
and like margarida says above somewhere, at least 1/3 of the weddings i’ve planned get legally married before their actual wedding day. many countries out of the US don’t grant a marraige license to foreigners and you need to make it official where you are a resident.
i apologize, i’m getting long winded with my opinion, i just wanted to be honest before i commented on what is bothering me….
….. you keep responding to people about how she took it to a personal level by emailing you. this is what i’m so confused about. have you stopped to consider that maybe she emailed you privately so that you could discuss this disagreement in a private forum? i think it is quite mature to first try to contact the commenter (you) and talk about it privately rather than battling back and forth on blogs which is what has happened now.
i hope i’ve articulated that last point clearly. i’m going to assume it was rachels motivation to email you so that your discussion could be had honestly in a private matter. but then again, thats just my assumption
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TJ Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 6:39 pm
Erin, I get your point, sort of – we did talk about it privately, and then the email conversation ended and then 15 or 20 minutes later or whatever, I find out she’s posted about me publicly.
Could it have stayed in email? Probably. I didn’t take it public, though, she did, and I think that after she wrote a post attacking me personally, I was within my rights to respond – and, as I said to another commenter, though her posting of all of our emails and her comments on them were personal, I’ve tried to stick as closely as possible to attacking her actions – which I disagree with – instead of herself.
I think, considering the sequence of events, I’ve been pretty level headed and fair, really.
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By Mj on Jan 26, 2010
You know what I don’t get? Chances are this bride, and others, lived with their fiancee for a time before the “civil ceremony.” People don’t have a problem with that, but they are supposed to have a problem people already being married and having a wedding?
They are not necessarily lying to their family, they are simply not telling their families about that part. Assuming that their “wedding day” is the day they formally celebrate their union, who cares. As far as I am concerned, you can simply write your invitation so that it is not indicating you are watching them get married. (e.g. Instead of “Mr. and Mrs. X and Mr. and Mrs. Y invite you to the marriage of X jr. and Y jr.” you can use “Please join Mr. and Mrs. X and Mr. and Mrs. Y in celebrating the wedding of X jr. and Y jr.) and then no lies are told.
I personally would understand that months before the wedding the bride and groom had already spent money on their destination wedding, and chose to get married earlier in a private ceremony, due to circumstances. My brother and his wife got married in her home country, a 17 hour flight away. If I had heard that they had married earlier so they could start an immigration process, or some other reason (he was, and still is, a Marine) I would have, if I could have, still made it to their ceremony (which wasn’t a big blowout, just a nice, quiet ceremony).
As to the car thing, that’s just plain stupid. Would they not get her a car because she already had one? What were they going to do if her car was still running then?? Seriously, no reason to lie in either of these situations. Just use common sense, and let those who really should know, know.
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By MoCo Mom on Jan 26, 2010
Okay, srsly, what a storm. I can’t even get through all the comments. I say, if you want to lie, be prepared to deal with the circumstances. If you’re mature enough to be married, you’re mature enough to tell the truth. No saying you can’t have a big par-tee later. (Not to mention: if you post it on the interwebs won’t said family figure it out?) (Also? If my honey was about to ship out, I’d get married, too. Well, aside from the fact that I’m ALREADY married, that is. That’s a whole ‘nother issue).
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By Erini CS on Jan 26, 2010
I don’t think she ever lied about being married. I’ve seen her tweet, she talks about her husband openly. If she tweets and blogs openly about the fact that they’re married then there is a very good chance (I’d like to say 99.9999999999% chance) that her family knows too. I don’t see how she’s lying.
Why does it matter *when* she signs a legal document and *when* she has a celebration with her family?
I don’t know anyone who has signed the document *during* the ceremony.
What she’s doing is having a celebration with her family. The fact that they couldn’t do it they way they wanted before her husband was deployed doesn’t mean that they shouldn’t do it at all.
I honestly don’t see what the issue is here.
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TJ Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 6:14 pm
First, this is the part, from the original post, that makes it seem like lying: “I chose not to make this public knowledge on my personal blog because our extended families don’t know. We didn’t want to ruin our “real” wedding just because we signed a few papers.”
Second, I didn’t see a whole big issue of it, either, but I’m not really the one who blew it up into a big thing.
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TJ Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 6:19 pm
I read this on a wedding blog and commented on it:
“I chose not to make this public knowledge on my personal blog because our extended families don’t know. We didn’t want to ruin our “real” wedding just because we signed a few papers.”
It wasn’t on her personal blog. I didn’t even know she had a personal blog until she posted on it about me. So why would I have read back in her personal blog before I disagreed with the fact that she was hiding the truth so as not to “ruin” her wedding?
I mean, I get where you’re coming from, but you have to keep in mind that she wrote what she wrote on a completely separate blog from her personal blog. I wrote a short comment saying I disagreed. Which you’re doing right now – it’s not a big deal.
Really, I can’t be expected to know her personal history when the original post wasn’t on her personal blog, and on top of that, even if I did know it, I still disagree with the whole hiding information so as not to ruin the “real” wedding thing.
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By Stephanie Olsen on Jan 26, 2010
I guess my only question is. . . Why do you care? I don’t understand why you even feel the need to play judge and jury. You calling her a liar is a low-blow, end of story. And you keep bringing up the email. Her email was kind and considerate, you were the one who turned dramatic.
If you want to comment on other people’s lives, that is fine, just keep it positive. I think we can all agree that there is enough hate and negativity in the world and you making more solves nothing. So you don’t agree with her? That IS your prerogative, but to be hateful to a complete stranger is just sad. You don’t know any more about her as a person than I do about you, but I do think you just like drama. And I think you picked the wrong girl to aggravate.
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TJ Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 7:41 pm
1. I didn’t call her a liar – she called herself a liar on Bridal Bloggette – she said that they weren’t telling extended family so as not to “ruin” their real wedding. So, her words, not mine.
2. In my original comment, now deleted, I didn’t make any attacks on her – I disagreed with her ACTIONS. Nothing about her, personally. Just her actions.
3. She took it to email, she slung the first insults, she published it all on her blog. In light of that, my response on my own blog certainly isn’t unwarrented. Plus, if you read my post, you can see that I tried very hard not to attack her personally, just her ACTIONS. I don’t agree with her actions. She was not so polite in her own post.
4. “you picked the wrong girl to aggravate.” – Um… because why? I’m serious. I mean, I’m sorry she’s aggravated but… it affects me how? Because you guys are commenting on my site now? I don’t see the problem. It’s cool if you disagree with me. I’m fine with people disagreeing with what I’ve posted. Your comments aren’t changing anything or upsetting me – we’re just disagreeing.
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Craig Reply:
January 28th, 2010 at 12:04 pm
Oh my.. #4 made me LOL. That’s so middle school it’s funny.
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By Brad on Jan 26, 2010
What a vicious cycle of people saying “why do you care” in a way that shows they are totally wrapped in your caring. I am SOOOO glad I got some popcorn to watch this show TJ!
Down with married women lying to family and friends! Even if it is going to be a (big! awesome! beautiful! celebratory! joyful!)wedding.
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Stephanie Olsen Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 6:24 pm
We care because she picked on a friend. . . and friends go to the mat for each other. I hope you have people that will go to the mat for you, cause that is what they should do.
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Khronos Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 6:28 pm
So wait, doesn’t that mean, by your definition, that YOU’RE picking on TJ right now? Because you’re just doing what she did- leaving a comment on a public blog.
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Brad Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 6:32 pm
and thus the circle is complete.
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Khronos Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 6:36 pm
Does that make me Darth Vader? Cuz if so, I’m all in.
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Craig Reply:
January 28th, 2010 at 12:10 pm
These comments are so full of win. Thanks for those LOL’s.. I needed them.
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By Khronos on Jan 26, 2010
What I’m curious about at this point is, if all the people GOING to Jamaica know about it (as several people have alleged in comments, despite this being different from what she originally said), why bother to hide it at all? From anyone? How is it going to “ruin the wedding” (her words) if people who won’t even be at the event know that it’s a celebration rather than the wedding itself? Seems like not only lying, but needless lying.
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By brandy on Jan 26, 2010
Just wondering if my comment got lost in the shuffle? I haven’t seen it posted yet?
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TJ Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 7:43 pm
I’m sorry brandy – I don’t see it?
My comment moderation kicks in for any new commenters – just your first comment should be moderated. I’ve let all but about maybe two ridiculously, expletive-filled comments through (and I kept those back more because of the eye-rollingly poor spelling than anything else), but sometimes my spam filter just eats things, even for established commenters.
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By Jasmine on Jan 26, 2010
Ok, this interested me on a number of different levels
1- because my ex-husband (who is in the army, and was in the army when we got engaged and married) didn’t want to tell his mother we were getting married until we were married.
2- my ex-husband and i did the whole civil ceremony sign the papers thing.
3- my current husband and i had a beautiful low key fun and “woodstock” (says my mother) wedding but are not legally married.
4- sometimes, drama is fun to read.
Opinion: I read what TJ had to say, then I read all of the comments, then I read the post titled Clearing The Air.
I don’t understand the whole hiding it from family thing in the least. If you’re going to tell the people who are invited to the wedding, why not have already told them? If you’re not going to tell the people who will not be at the wedding… Don’t you think they’ll find out from the other people who were at the wedding? What is it that you are preserving about the dream wedding by lying? All of that extremely confuses me, but whatever, I’m not in the bride-to-be’s head.
Lying/hiding your marriage (note I didn’t say wedding ceremony) from your family, is perfectly fine. If you don’t want to tell them that’s your business, but why on earth would you want to do that when your husband is getting deployed and your family is your support pillar? Reading just that blog post without any background from the blogger does give the impression that she’s lying to her family. As a blog reader, I stick the blog and don’t go investigating the blogger’s background or lifestyle on the interwebs, and I would assume most other blog readers wouldn’t either. In which case, if she felt it was common knowledge that she’s married, to readers, friends, family or whoever, it should be mentioned in the post, especially since the post title even gives the impression that the blogger is clearing up information that is not common knowledge.
Posting on a public blog makes it just that, public. Which means you’re going to get people who disagree with you and people who don’t. And while yes, it is your choice how to respond to people who disagree with you, any and everyone I know who reads or writes blogs would frown upon deleting a comment just because the commenter doesn’t agree with you. If it is that big of a deal, and that important to you, defend yourself on your blog so that everyone else doesn’t say ‘hmm… hey… maybe maybe she’s ashamed of the lying/hiding the truth thing. so why’s she doing it if she know’s it’s wrong?’
I don’t know the blogger. And while I enjoy her blog, I don’t know TJ either. So I can’t say who’s right or wrong, but I can say that as a blogger, I think the OP lacked quite a bit of netiquette in the way she was did things.
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Pablo Reply:
January 27th, 2010 at 12:42 pm
The only reason I can figure out that you wouldn’t go ahead and tell extended family is that then Uncle Walter and Aunt Sue won’t send any loot their way. Human nature has it that extended family won’t be nearly as generous if the couple is already married long before the ‘real wedding’ takes place. Especially if the real wedding is held in Jamaica, where they can’t attend.
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By Jasmine on Jan 26, 2010
Nooo, I’m not long winded at allllll.
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By Dan on Jan 26, 2010
Man, I am changing my lurker comment from delurker day. Favourite internet phenomenon – this drama.
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By Dinsdale on Jan 27, 2010
I think at this point, after reading her post, then your post, then all the comments, I kind of hate everyone. And everything. Especially weddings.
Bitching about other bloggers tends to make all parties look bad. And now I’m going to shut up before I start looking even worse.
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By Christine on Jan 27, 2010
Hmm. “Confessions of a Jersey Girl?” Oh the irony.
If she doesn’t want opinions that don’t jive with hers, she shouldn’t post it publicly. Welcome to the Internet!
The fact that she feels the need to delete any dissenting opinions really just shows how little self-esteem she has.. That, or she knows she’s being a little bridezilla about the whole thing and needs to have only “you’re so awesome!” comments to justify her actions. Which totally suggests that she knows lying is sketchy.
And bashing about WoW? What is this, high school? I sincerely hope those people don’t procreate because come on, the popularity contest crap is juvenile.
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By BlueTiger on Jan 27, 2010
am I the only one that got stuck on the argument “I am entitled to this”? Like TJ said (I am on Tjs side here, so yes, I am bias, so shoot m, everyone else here is it seems)
So we are entitled to big, white wedding? Where is that law? I’ve argued with my sister, not about being entitled to a white wedding, but being entitled to just about everything else. Her view is that if she doesn’t want to work, she doesn’t have to, she is entitled to help from the State.
Again, I want to see that law.
One ceremony and one party = a wedding I say. Nothing says they have to be at the same time.
Kudos to TJ for letting this discussion happen on her blog, I know how I would feel.
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By Phaedra on Jan 27, 2010
The only case I thing of for a legitimate reason for hiding it is my sister-in-law’s case. She and her husband are both in the army and were up in Alaska. The time for new housing arrangements came up and in order for them to live together, they had to get married. They told their parents and most of the family, except for Nanny, the 90 year matriarch of my in-laws family. Mostly because no matter what, Nanny would have flown up to AK in the winter to be there. So, everyone in the family keeps it a secret from Nanny (because she would be really hurt).
So, Nanny to this day still doesn’t know that my sister-in-law and her husband’s big day wasn’t the first wedding. The rest of us, however, still have to call them twice a year on both of their anniversaries.
But yes, lying to keep your marriage a secret so you can have a real big day is pretty lame. I know too many people who got married (army, baby, deportation) and then had the big day to even think that it’s a big deal anymore.
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By DJ on Jan 27, 2010
I am breaking out in large watery hives just reading all of this says the single man in his cube at work!
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By Suzy on Jan 27, 2010
If you just want to put your opinion out there on a blog, disable the comments! For her to email you, she stepped over the line. Then, because she didn’t like your opinion, which I think is what the Comment section is all about, she deleted it. That just furthers the lying. And of course, all this is IMO. But that’s what the Comment section is for. IMO
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By lak on Jan 27, 2010
First of all, did anyone else read “Confessions of Jersey Girl” (I opened it in a tab, and that’s the title – no “a”) and immediately think of Jersey Shore? Haha.
Second, it looks like she deleted that post so I can’t quote it exactly, but she wrote something akin to, “I’m going to post this, and allow people to disagree with me as long as they do it constructively …” – and then proceeded to delete EVERY single comment that wasn’t her friends waxing on about how she’s the most perfect person in the world and TJ and her WoW buddies are the devils.
Third, people complain about someone commenting on a public blog? Really? Isn’t that the whole point of having a public blog, so that other people can read what you write and um, comment? What am I missing here?
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Adlib Reply:
January 27th, 2010 at 8:09 am
You’re right; she did delete it. She then wrote another post with another paragraph justifying herself some more and then moved on to other topics. She starts the whole thing and then acts like the bigger person for being all “nevermind, I’m above that”. She’s not fooling anyone.
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By James on Jan 27, 2010
Dear TJ,
I really enjoy reading your column. I was involved in a very similar situation when I got married. When I asked my wife to marry me she said yes and promptly told her parents who were very excited. Her dad had been saving money for her wedding since she was 5 years old and had a huge ceremony planned. At the time I had been in the Navy for 2 years and did not make much money and my soon to be wife was living with me and I had a 6 month deployment scheduled to begin in 2 months. We decided to get a quick JoP wedding before i left so that she could get medical insurance and we could start earning money for housing which we were not getting because we were not married. My wife and I decided not to tell our respective families not for selfish reasons, but out of respect. Her parents had been planning and saving for her wedding for over 15 years, if we had told them they would have given us the cash, but what they wanted was the event. I felt it would have been wrong to take that away from them, and 20 years later I am glad we never told them. The look on their faces during the event was worth more to my wife than anything else.
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Craig Reply:
January 28th, 2010 at 12:49 pm
I see no reason for keeping it from them. Just be honest for your reasons for getting married by the JoP and tell them you still wanted to have the ceremony. Trust me, the looks on their faces wouldn’t have been any different.
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By Carrie on Jan 27, 2010
So.
First, thank you for the reading material. My google reader was farting out on me, and I was desperately bored.
Secondly, hiding things from your family never ends well. I speak from experience. I eloped with my husband to Las Vegas in January of 2003. I didn’t tell my parents until March of said year. Why? I was scared. I knew they wouldn’t approve, and I didn’t want to deal with the explosion that I knew would come. They wanted me to wait until after my brother’s wedding that December. We decided that we didn’t want to wait, and so… we didn’t.
Looking back now, I wonder how things would have been different. If I had said, well, I don’t want to wait, would they have been ok with it? Would they have helped me put together a quick ceremony? I guess I’ll never know.
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By Chibi Jeebs on Jan 27, 2010
For all the people defending Jersey Girl and slamming TJ’s meeeen gurl comment on Bridal Bloggettes, did any of you actually get to READ said comment before it was deleted? I’m just curious: I didn’t see it myself; I won’t comment on what I’m not able to read myself – I won’t take ANYONE’S opinion of events for gospel without being able to form my own conclusions.
Secondly, a lie of omission? Still a LIE.
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By brandy on Jan 27, 2010
It saddens me,- truly, I mean in the non- sarcastic way here, that you’ve decided to base your opinion on someone off limited information. If you had spent a little more time learning about the situation, you would have found that the people who are going to the wedding are people who know about the marriage already.
I realize in the world of instant entertainment and one click attention spans, judging someone based on one post doesn’t seem like a big issue or even for that matter, an important one- as long as it prove your point. But the point here is? You don’t have all the information. And posts like this do nothing to help the sound arguments that I believe you are trying to make.
Hopefully you will realize that even though it’s easy to write posts like this, the message is lost when you don’t have all the information. I hope that you feel better about this situation soon, it appears to be causing you a lot of grief.
Am I going to the wedding? No. Have Rachel and I ever sat around talking about her wedding? No. But do I believe that a little respect goes a long way on the internet goes a long way? Absolutely. Hopefully you will feel similar soon.
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TJ Reply:
January 27th, 2010 at 9:44 am
Like I’ve told other posters above, I get that you’re defending your friend. However, you don’t seem to have the whole story either.
1. I never commented on her personal blog – I commented on a blog that had no personal information about her at all. A blog post where she flat out said she was lying/hiding things from family so as not to “ruin” her “real” wedding. I mean, did you go read all of the other places I write before you commented here?
2. I didn’t email her, she emailed me with insults and a confrontational tone because I disagreed with her. I didn’t even insult her in the initial comment, which she deleted. I just disagreed.
3. She wrote a blog post, posting a private email conversation and saying rude things about me, personally. I wrote a blog post where I disagreed with her actions – AND pointed out that it’s not specific to her, I’ve disagreed with this kind of action for a long time. You’ll see if you read closely that while the actions of your friend (deleting the comments of anyone who disagreed with her, taking it to personal email, posting personal emails and insults – all things she did first) are what lead me to explain myself in this post, I did not attack her. Just her actions – actions SHE clearly stated herself.
So while you’re “truly saddened” with my actions – defending myself in a level-headed tone, explaining why I disagreed with her stated actions, all while managing not to call anyone bitter or a “cunt” as some on her site had done – I can only imagine how you must feel about her significantly worse, significantly more dramatic, insulting, rude and overwrought actions.
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By Swistle on Jan 27, 2010
Oh my dear god, this comment section is like a Tour of Irrationality. So many people are not understanding ONE WORD of what you said, nor one word of what THEY THEMSELVES are saying. And then they’re all proud of their irrational arguments, like, “Q.E.D. I GOT YOU FER SURES!!” This is the kind of thing that drives me to drink, because it messes with my belief that most people can understand reason.
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By M.Amanda on Jan 27, 2010
Wow, this is an interesting argument. I don’t have time to read all the original posts on this, but I have to disagree with you, TJ, on the lying never being ok.
The truth means different things to different people. Maybe the paper was not “real” to her, but would have been to Grammy who would have given her loads of crap for having two weddings, which would have ruined what should have been a special moment. I would have no problem lying to those people. Of course, I would also have no problem telling those same people to suck it and stay away, but not everyone is as willing as I am (or you are?) to tell even beloved relatives that they are acting like jackasses and you will continue do “cement a place in Hell” regardless of what they say.
Again, I don’t know what the situation was that she felt lying was appropriate, but certainly there is no need for this to have escalated this far. People disagree all the time. Unfortunately, people don’t manage to do it maturely all the time – especially on the internet.
Personally, I think at most she should have responded with a comment on the original post saying that while she respects your different take on it, she made the best decision for her situation. At the least, she should have read your comment, thought to herself, “Wow, we are very different,” and moved on.
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By Delicia on Jan 27, 2010
OMG Drama!!!
Ok.. I posted a comment on the OP’s personal blog site, though I haven’t bothered to check to see if it was deleted since I didn’t explicitly agree with everything she said.
First, commendations to TJ for actually linking the original post on the Bridal Bloggette site. I couldn’t say the same for the OP on her personal blog. Unfortunately it appears that TJ’s original commenting post has been deleted so I am not able to read that to discuss my opinions on that.
Having said that:
1. Margarita said: “Most couples don’t exclaim to the world that they signed that piece of paper, they may tell their parents, but really it’s their own personal thing. It’s not an outright lie, it’s a personal matter.”
In my opinion, a lie of omission is still a lie. Of course, everyone has the right to lie. You can’t FORCE someone to tell people the truth. It’s unfortunate when someone does that because it also makes the people who you DO tell your ‘accomplices’ in that they are now bound to NOT tell the people you haven’t told either. And if they slip up and tell them, it could cause hurt feelings all around (or even if they *don’t* ie: “you knew??! why didn’t you TELL Me?!!” etc).
From further comments of supporters of the OP, I see she is paying for family/friends to come to the fancy wedding out of country. Kudos to that, I think people that chose to have a wedding someplace exotic (like a cruise, or foreign country) shouldn’t burden their family and friends with the expense of attending. It almost becomes a “how much do you love me” game with who can afford to come. Heck if I could afford a trip to someplace like that, I’d already be booked for myself!!
I do think that a JoP marriage is still a “wedding”.. in that it is a legal, binding contract. I also understand that for some people, a JoP marriage vs. a big fancy wedding is like eating a diet chocolate bar when you want chocolate eclare. It still serves the basic function, but it doesn’t satisfy the same way. I have no problem with folks that want to do both, but I don’t think you need to hide the fact you got married at a JoP like it’s some dirty secret.
Anyway.. It’s a shame to see this got all blown out of proportion, with people taking or making it personal when it seems that the people involved were just trying to express their own opinions on the subject. You don’t have to agree with people’s opinions, but we should all agree that posting stuff in a public area that allows comments means you should expect to get comments, good or bad.
Del
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By Dragoncroft on Jan 27, 2010
Wow. I’m shocked at all the commenters here that not only condone this Jersey gal lying to her family but putting forth the argument that it’s somehow the high road to lie to her loved ones. What an incredibly childish outlook…that your dearest family (those probably paying for this lovely destination wedding)couldn’t possibly understand your reasons for a civil ceremony pre-deployment and wouldn’t support you. Lying about it is certainly the adult and ethical approach to it.
Adding insult to injury, she posts about it in not one but two public internet venues. Because the first thing _I’M_ going to do when keeping a secret from my family is to tell a large body of total strangers first! That will really make the ol’ family feel good when they find out … and they will.
There may be a psychotic involved here, ol’ Jimmy Boy, but it ain’t TJ. This sounds like an episode of Jersey Shores.
There’s a reason that the cliche “Honesty is the best policy” became a cliche.
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By Kestrel on Jan 27, 2010
Holy shit. I have read perhaps a third of the comments here, and I can’t remember anything you’ve written that has engendered so many comments in such a short period.
Apropos of nothing, perhaps, my oldest son got married 9 years ago. Originally, they had a June wedding planned. He was a lieutenant in the Army, she was going to college in the city where he was stationed. However, they decided they didn’t want to wait: In October they called us and asked if it would be okay if they had a small ceremony in November and went ahead with the bigger wedding ceremony in June.
We were okay with it, her parents were okay with it. They didn’t hide the fact they were getting married earlier from anyone, and we had a beautiful small ceremony in November, with larger, more elaborate ceremony in June. The reason for the June ceremony was that they did want their friends to share their joy, and to have more family members there. Everyone at the June wedding knew they couple had been married for 7 months; not one person had an issue with that, and the number and quality of gifts (if such a thing can or should be measured) was no different than if they weren’t already married.
The point is, they were honest with everyone.
Lying is bad. For me, it’s one of the greatest offenses someone can commit: Lie to me, and we are done. Period. No excuses and no exceptions.
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By Imalinata on Jan 27, 2010
Wow…reading these comments takes me back to high school all over again: “Cool” kids vs. “not-cool” kids.
When someone posts on a public blog, I think it has to be accepted that some people will only find that one post either through a link from someone else they read, a google search, a blog roll, whatever. Not everyone has the time to go back and read every post that blogger has made prior to making a comment. It shouldn’t be expected that new readers must read every pertinent post (which are typically – for the blogs I read – intermingled with other posts not necessarily related to the post I want to comment on) posted previously prior to posting.
I have no idea what TJ posted because I don’t read wedding blogs (yay being married already). But if the poster had such an issue with a comment that TJ posted saying that the gal was effectively lying to her family and that doing so was wrong, why not reply to the comment with something like ‘I don’t think you’ve seen some of my earlier posts regarding this. You might check out these other posts for the back-story.’ and then provide links. Then it wouldn’t have turned into (what sounds like) massive personal attacks and would have had the side benefit of cluing in other new readers to the Bridal Bloggette blog.
If you have a blog, and you don’t want comments, turn off commenting for that post. I have seen friends do this on entries that they don’t want or need input on from the peanut gallery, and I’ve seen public blogs do it as well for the same reason. But once you accept comments, you’re accepting the comments that agree and disagree with what you posted. There’s a big wide world out there and no one will agree with anyone 100% of the time.
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By Craig on Jan 28, 2010
My head hurts after reading all this.
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By Alex on Jan 28, 2010
What Brad said, somewhere up there about popcorn? Grab me some, too. This is better than TV. What a way to kill the last half hour of work!
I don’t think I have the wearwithal to get in the middle of this (but I do tend to side with you, TJ, given what I’ve read).
Fun question though: can you reccomend any good wedding blogs? My planning so anticlamactic I kind of want to see what crazy shit is going down with other brides.
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By Lyle on Feb 10, 2010
Right on, TJ. Although I have to say that people get a lil nutty round their weddings (only time my sis and I have ever had words). Maybe this is part of the whole anxiety? Anyhoo, nevermind the haters. You brought up a great point. Lying leads to trouble. Also, why stress about the extended wedding celebrations? I have a family member who had a wedding in Italy and receptions in Boston and Philadelphia to accommodate family and friends. Who doesn’t love more times to party??
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