I won’t stand for this.
March 5th, 2008 | by TJ |TJ: Can there be a thunder and lightning storm with snow?
BRK: No.
TJ: Why not?
BRK: Because lightning requires water.
TJ: Snow is made of water.
BRK: No it isn’t.
TJ: … yes it is.
BRK: Does it fall slowly from the sky?
TJ: Yes.
BRK: Does it pile up on the ground?
TJ: Yes.
BRK: Does water do either of those things?
TJ: Well, no.
BRK: See?
TJ: But if you throw a batch of cookies in the air they don’t settle finely on your counter, but they’re still made of flour!
BRK: No, they’re not.
TJ: Can I call you back in 5 minutes?
BRK: Sure.
TJ: *buys diet soda, gets gas, dials phone*
BRK: Hello?
TJ: SNOW IS MADE OF WATER!
BRK: Fine. Snow is made of water.
TJ: See, I told you.
BRK: You’re right.
TJ: Are you humoring me?
BRK: Of course I am.
TJ: SNOW IS MADE OF WAAATEEERRR!!
Discuss.
By Sorosst on Mar 5, 2008
BRK here is demonstrating why geeks rule (and he’s doing it to within a tolerance of 1 micron). Awesome geekiness entails, in the words of Neal Stephenson, “knowing that two plus two equals four, and sticking to [your] guns in a way that is kind of nerdy and that maybe hurts people’s feelings sometimes.” (The ability to quote Neal Stephenson to make a point is also a strong-positive indicator of geekiness; the awesomeness therein is debateable.)
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By BryGy on Mar 5, 2008
There can in fact be lightning and thunder during a snow storm. Its called… wait for it…. “Thundersnow”
Its happened twice this year here in Iowa. It usually happens during a heavy snowfall where the snow is very moist. Lots of moving bits in the air creating friction and static charge.
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By Jen on Mar 5, 2008
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=87761584
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By Jen on Mar 5, 2008
Oh, wait… Boffors beat me to it!
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By Vaelin on Mar 5, 2008
I’m guessing BRK’s family has wised up enough to his antics that he’s looking for other entities to torment. ;)
Snow is made of ice, snowflakes, and little girls’ dreams… I’m sorry TJ.
Lightening is less likely in snowstorms. There are a number of contributing factors… but at the most basic sense: ice isn’t very conductive. Not that pure water is either, but ‘bound’ water that is simply stuck to a dust/dirt/random particle usually due to ionization IS. This is one of the concepts we exploit to tell where the moisture/melt layer is under tundra… And why your cell phone/Direct TV is works just fine in a snowstorm (aside from the cold and the wind) and not so well in a good rainstorm (aside from the wet and the wind).
Basically, it’s harder to create a plasma, like lightening, in snow than in rain. And for reasons (some related), the ionizing effect we see in thunderstorms is greatly lessened in snowstorms. This doesn’t mean that lightening is impossible under every snow condition, just very very unlikely under most snow conditions.
Damnit Jim, I’m a scientist/engineer, not a weatherman!
In summary:
Cheese is alive…
discuss. :P
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By Daxenos on Mar 5, 2008
Same here in Indiana. Except they call it “Fred”. Dunno why, they just do.
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By Bellwether on Mar 5, 2008
Snow IS made of water.
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By Dammerung on Mar 5, 2008
http://twoandahalforcs.blogspot.com/2008/03/picture-says-it-all.html
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By Fiordhraoi on Mar 5, 2008
I too have witnessed thunder & lightning during a snowstorm. It is quite freaky.
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By Fiordhraoi on Mar 5, 2008
I too have witnessed thunder and lightning during a snowstorm. It is quite freaky.
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By Hershey on Mar 5, 2008
Remember, BRK lives in Florida. And while he may have seen snow in NY, time (and humid coastal weather) may have dulled his memories a bit.
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By kakalaki on Mar 5, 2008
http://www.faqkids.com/idx/4/082/article/How_is_snow_made.html
.
.
Hope this helps.
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By sonvar on Mar 5, 2008
Snow is a different form of water but I’m surprised you let him led you along so far. Especially with there being an intermission in there. And I agree with Ratshag thrown cookies are just a waste.
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By Gauntlet on Mar 5, 2008
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thundersnow
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water
Excerpt: “In typical usage, water refers only to its liquid form or state, but the substance also has a solid state, ice, and a gaseous state, water vapor.”
TJ wins the argument, although BRK wins as well, in that he made you react in accordance with his responses.
Victory: Everybody.
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By T.O. on Mar 5, 2008
Had thunder and lightening with snow in Toronto, (Canada) last night. It’s the craziest shit when that happens.
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By Boffors on Mar 5, 2008
/science hat on
Water is the liquid form of dihydrogen monoxide (H2O), ice is the solid form of H2O. Snow is made of ice crystals, thus snow = ice not water.
However, thunder is the product of lightning passing through the atmosphere and lightning is caused by the polarization of clouds and the discharge of the negative electrical charge from the bottom of the cloud to the ground or positive top of the cloud. The movement of air and H2O in clouds builds up the electrical charge in clouds, and hot moist conditions are more conducive to producing the proper conditions for lightning than cold, but it is not impossible. See this story:http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_8150473
/science hat off
So BRK is correct that snow is not “technically’ water, but it is H20. And the answer to TJ’s question is yes thunder and lightning is possible in a snow storm, but it is not normal, so BRK is wrong that lightning requires water.
Ok, everyone can wake-up now, I am done.
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By Ratshag on Mar 5, 2008
If you throws a batch of cookies in the air, you’s just wasting cookies. Don’t matter what they’s made of.
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By Fuller on Mar 5, 2008
@Ratshag: AGREED!
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By Gauntlet on Mar 5, 2008
Thank you, Ratshag, for pointing out the important matters :)
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By Rabbit on Mar 5, 2008
@ Boffors
/furiously taking notes
Mr. Science…thank you. That was a damn fine answer.
/hands Boffors one of the cookies TJ threw in the air
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By Boffors on Mar 5, 2008
@Rabbit
Thank You!!! C is for Cookie!
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=18659731
hmmm…..chocolate chip…..
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By Lynda on Mar 5, 2008
I just want to know what BRK thinks it is made of.
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By Trollin' on Mar 5, 2008
@Lynda: I’m from FL too, so I can tell you this. Whatever snow is made of, it’s not water. We’re surrounded by the stuff and it falls out of the sky at us at a million miles an hour constantly, and snow *does not* look like that.
Therefore, snow != water.
QED.
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By Yardbo on Mar 6, 2008
I think BRK likes to push TJ’s buttons. Please don’t throw anymore cookies. Unless they have raisens. Eww @ raisens!!
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By derikbru on Mar 6, 2008
Just wanted to point out that while ice and snow may not be water (although it is the solid form of H2O); ice is made of/from water. If snow is small ice crystals, then those ice crystals were made of/from water. This is very different than saying snow is water. And please quit throwing cookies.
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By Lance on Mar 6, 2008
Actually water is a great conductor of electricity, I mean just last week I threw a radio into my friends bath… nevermind that I was watching a science show and they threw a radio into a bath tub full of water and watched the thing come to life.
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By z-man on Mar 7, 2008
Can we have a moment of silence for those fallen cookies?
/silence
Ok, now I am totally forming the Cookie Liberation Front or People for the Ethical Treatment of Cookies.
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